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well meaning end time conspiracy "evangelism"
#1
If you are like me you probably meet some very passionate people along the way who call themselves evangelists, but who are mostly sharing end time conspiracies with others and getting a little... heated, because other Christians don't seem to understand the importance of warning people about all the horrors they talk about. (I do not mean normal explaining of the wrath of God as would appear in the gospel message.)

I know a few like this, they are serious about wanting people to come to Christ for salvation, they know the true gospel, but they seem to put more people off than they realise, and find themselves both isolated from fellowship and annoying most people they talk to. They think it is persecution. I have talked to one in particular for a few years and shared from Timothy how we are not to strive with people etc, and tried in vain to encourage him to just preach Christ and Christ crucified.


We know that the Holy Spirit leads us into all the truth, but I also know that hearing and understanding the word of God, taught in the right way is a big part of that. 


I was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for reading or video material about that, from solid teachers that can present the case much better than I can. I see such frustration and such a heart to reach people that I would love to find something that could help this one friend in particular, redirect that passion in the right way.

Any suggestions?

(I am on a tiny device and cant sort the text size out so sorry for any typos I missed )
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#2
Hi Jen,

I'm not quite sure if this is fully on topic with what you're looking for or not to be honest, so please take it or leave it.

I had a major issue over the years in various churches regarding the whole subject of end times matters, ranging from the rapture of the church to the rebuilding of the temple in Israel etc.. For years I used to get so frustrated by so many of the things being taught as fact, and yet whenever I challenged those things for Scripture in any way, it was always met with great hostility. Then I came across a book written by a guy called Dr. Kim Riddlebarger, who is a pastor and also a co-host with Michael Horton on an established Christian radio show from the States called White Horse Inn. The book was simply an introduction to amillennialism, and in my opinion, gives a truly level headed understanding of eschatology, taking much of the heatedness out of the subject.

To be totally honest, when I first embraced amillennialism myself, I went off the other end for a while so to speak, on a full on mission to expose dispensationalism for the poison it is, and the way it flies in the face of Scripture in so much of its teachings. Without much doubt at all, it's from a church that is steeped in dispensational theology that you will see people such as you've mentioned emerge. What's more, the reaction you usually get when offering the sanity of Biblical eschatology, in place of the practice of reading the Bible with a newspaper headline in the other hand, usually makes no sense whatsoever.

Anyway, for what it's worth, here is a link to Kim Riddlebargers website, where his book is linked and content described. But also in the right hand column you will see a series of lectures called Amillennialism 101, which is a series of lectures expanding on what is taught and discussed in his book "A Case for Amillennialism". Well worth reading his book, and well worth listening to his lectures, which can be listened to freely and without the book at all. As everything in the book is in the lectures too.

http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/a...ennialism/

God bless,

John
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#3
I think you might have missed Jen's point, John. Or I have. She wants to encourage her friend to preach the Gospel rather than end times as if that is what saves? I meet folk like that who preach creationism like it is the Gospel. As well as other things. I believe we can use all oof scripture to lead people to Christ. But if the conversation does not lead to the Gospel then it is not a Gospel conversation. The end times or creationism is not a Gospel.
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#4
Nigel you are right with regards my enquiry and I am sorry if I was not clear enough. John I do appreciate the thoughts, and the link, and will look, thank you both for the time you took to try and help me with this matter. 

Blessings
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#5
(06-20-2017, 08:10 PM)Nigel Williams Wrote: I think you might have missed Jen's point, John. Or I have. She wants to encourage her friend to preach the Gospel rather than end times as if that is what saves? I meet folk like that who preach creationism like it is the Gospel. As well as other things. I believe we can use all oof scripture to lead people to Christ. But if the conversation does not lead to the Gospel then it is not a Gospel conversation. The end times or creationism is not a Gospel.

Hi Nigel,

That was why I mentioned it the way I did. However one thing I do understand clearly now, is that Christian doctrine correctly understood is always directly linked to Christ and His Gospel, and that includes eschatology. The primary reason I have been so vocal for so long about this issue, is that popular end times theology leads people anywhere but to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Maybe it's just me with a wrong perspective, but I am of the firm opinion that if we feel we have to put theology aside to present Christ crucified and risen again, we have a wrong theology. Surely we should be seeking to emulate the apostles, in that they had a clear vision of Jesus Christ throughout all of Scripture, and for them all roads led to Christ so to speak. Christ is the beginning, the fulfillment of all things, the Temple, the Prophet, the Priest, the King, the Seed to Whom all things were promised etc., and if someone claiming to be a brother cannot see that because of bad theology, we should be lovingly seeking to open their eyes to the truth, in order that they can truly proclaim Christ as He commanded.

God bless,

John
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#6
(06-21-2017, 03:25 PM)Hi Nigel, Wrote: That was why I mentioned it the way I did. However one thing I do understand clearly now, is that Christian doctrine correctly understood is always directly linked to Christ and His Gospel, and that includes eschatology. The primary reason I have been so vocal for so long about this issue, is that popular end times theology leads people anywhere but to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Maybe it's just me with a wrong perspective, but I am of the firm opinion that if we feel we have to put theology aside to present Christ crucified and risen again, we have a wrong theology. Surely we should be seeking to emulate the apostles, in that they had a clear vision of Jesus Christ throughout all of Scripture, and for them all roads led to Christ so to speak. Christ is the beginning, the fulfillment of all things, the Temple, the Prophet, the Priest, the King, the Seed to Whom all things were promised etc., and if someone claiming to be a brother cannot see that because of bad theology, we should be lovingly seeking to open their eyes to the truth, in order that they can truly proclaim Christ as He commanded.

God bless,

John


Hi John, I agree, all of scripture does point to Christ / the Gospel. But in regards to types of eschatology, different ones can and are used to point people to Christ. Indeed I know folk with different beliefs about the end who do use it to point people to Christ.

Jen, I think this is a pride issue and probably a church discipline issue. We should be able to fellowship with others whom they don't agree with. That is the beauty of church -we exist together in love in spite of our disagreements. If church discipline does not exist (including church membership), there will be a struggle and folk will leave churches and there will be disorder. The people you mention, or the individual, are they members of a church? If so, they would have agreed with the church statement of believe and become accountable from that. If they are not, then it would be difficult for any accountability. God is a God of order, not disorder. That is one of the consequences of no church membership. Stray bullets and no accountability. I think, without knowing what exactly has gone on, that it is both the duty of the church eldership and the person who you describe to work together to come into unity and accountability.
 
They will continue to wander on in their own doctrine bubble so long as they are not challenged to be one with the fellowship of believers in spite of their disagreements. I don't know if that makes sense at all?
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#7
Hey Nigel, 
the specific person is at a reasonably sound church as far as I know (doctrinally speaking) , but with an ageing congregation and one that has not seen a need to offer any such challenge or discipline so far. The others I know, some are in churches, various ones, but I couldn't say for certain how their own churches respond to their methods of communicating their end time and conspiracy messages.

I just thought as i have come across it more than once, I would like to have something solid and biblical to give them that, if they wanted to, they could take away and read. Thanks for your thoughts on the subject though.
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